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May 20, 2004

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» God given right from T O T K a t
I've been following this little discussion about Penn State making students jump through hoops to run servers in their dorm rooms and have comment to make on the latest stanza. Yes, higher education and academic freedom is important, but both... [Read More]

» God given right from T O T K a t
I've been following this little discussion about Penn State making students jump through hoops to run servers in their dorm rooms and have comment to make on the latest stanza.... [Read More]

» God given right from T O T K a t
I've been following this little discussion about Penn State making students jump through hoops to run servers in their dorm rooms and have comment to make on the latest stanza. Yes, higher education and academic freedom is important, but both... [Read More]

» More Copyright v. the University from A Copyfighter's Musings
Follow this great thread from Jason ( here , here , and here ) and Ed , with comments from Donna here. [Read More]

» More Copyright v. the University from A Copyfighter's Musings
Follow this great thread from Jason ( here , here , and here ) and Ed , with comments from Donna here. [Read More]

» God given right from T O T K a t
I've been following this little discussion about Penn State making students jump through hoops to run servers in their dorm rooms and have comment to make on the latest stanza. Yes, higher education and academic freedom is important, but both... [Read More]

Comments

Cypherpunk

What you say is true, that there are many legitimate uses for "servers" (in the sense of any computer that responds to requests) beyond copyright infringement. The language in the letter you quote seems to ignore this fact and treat the two as synonymous.

But that viewpoint is valid as well, because the truth is that the overwhelming majority of students running servers will be for these illegal purposes. This may be an inconvenient and unpleasant fact, but it is almost certainly true. And your reasoning doesn't come to grips with this reality. Until you are willing to do so, talking about hypothetical blog servers and the like will not have any impact on the decisions of network administrators who are faced with ugly reality every day.

The truth is that the illegal and illicit actions of students have been encouraged by an internet culture which says that such actions are proper and justified. This is the ultimate cause of the mismatch between theory and reality in the administrators' actions. You and others have encouraged students to believe that illicit file sharing is OK, and this false belief is contradicted by the legal situation in which the school finds itself.

The real problem is that your theoretical analysis has a huge hole. You want to see students allowed to run legitimate servers, but you are completely silent on whether they should be allowed to run ones that infringe copyright. You know it won't work to tell administrators that their students should be allowed to infringe copyright because copyright is evil or because the record companies don't pay enough royalties to the musicians. But you can't bring yourself to criticize the students for file sharing and to blame them for bringing this ban down on themselves. Until you are willing to take one stand or the other, you have no grounds for drawing conclusions on this issue.

Jason

Cypher -- I'm surprised at you. I usually enjoy your comments and thoughts, but this one feels more like an ad hominem attack. I have never and will never "encourage students to believe that illicit file sharing is OK" and I resent the impliication that I have. True, I believe we should find a way to legalize file-sharing by compensating artists so we don't have to watch the RIAA and other forces decend upon individual Americans and their families with the kind of destructive vigor we've seen so far. But that doesn't mean I think what they are doing is right. I'm proposing a policy solution, not a justification.

As far as what students are using servers for, you say "the truth is that the overwhelming majority of students running servers will be for these illegal purposes" without any justification for your statement. Do you have any evidence to back this up? Or is it you who are stretching reality to justify your personal agenda?

The reality is that I don't know what students are using servers for. My critique is that educational institutions are making the assumption that they are being used solely for infringement without proof. I can understand why university sysadmins would think this, given that they probably only hear about servers when they are involved in illegal activity. And I think in those situations, the university has every right to shut those servers down. But I think its wrongheaded to impose a complete ban on technology because even a majority of users are using it for illegal purposes. I mean, I could easily make the argument that a majority of encryption users are probably using encryption to hide illegal or socially irredeemable activities. Should we ban that as well? Under your logic (and burden of proof), I would think so.

Jim

As an already-overworked higher-ed sysadmin, may I simply ask this question:

How will you pay for it?

How will you pay for the rapidly-increasing costs when 40% of your university's bandwidth is being eaten by student FTP servers and P2P clients, and legitimate research and university business is being negatively impacted?

How will you pay for the networking hardware, administrative software, and wired (and unwired) infrastructure to support the exponential growth of bandwidth-eating projects?

How will you pay for the people and expertise to manage all this, to support it, to respond to the network-threatening issues that will arise like clockwork?

I work in Higher Ed IT, have been doing it for 14 years at some of the largest state universities in the nation. I get paid to Make Things Work. I can talk ethics, ideals, and philosophy with the best of them - it's what my formal training is it. But at the end of the day, I have to maintain a reasonably stable and secure computing environment, within the ever-tightening resource constraints I have to work in.

You want freedom? It COSTS, my friend. Come up with a scenario for funding unlimited IT that is more concrete than "the state/federal government should support this, it's imperative!"

When you have that, I'll listen to this *very* academic argument.

Until then, well. I don't have a lot of time for ivory tower thinkers with caviar ideals and bologna resources. I've got a network to keep alive.

Jason

You raise many excellent points, Jim, but again, I think you're making a number of assumptions that may not be true. If bandwidth and overhead are the issues, deal with those issues by limiting bandwidth -- not by baning server technology. Students can run servers with reasonable bandwidth caps.

And I'm entirely sympathetic to the huge burden placed on Higher Ed IT folks, not only for network consistency and security, but also for responding to DMCA and other legal notices. But again, I don't think the answer is an entire ban on technology. You certainly have the right to discipline students for instigating illegal conduct using the university network, but it should be the illegal conduct that triggers the sanctions, not simply the use of technology that in and of itself is value neutral.

The Penn State officials made it clear that the reason for the "no server" ban isn't bandwidth, security, or overhead but rather copyright enforcement. Thus, my quarrel with them is over that trade-off. Limitations made for other reasons may not be as troublesome.

chuck

case in point: in 2001 penn state limited users to 1.5 mbps up and down. They said they were going to increase it annulally, but they didnt, now it seems like every site that i go to had flash ads and such, penn state needs to give us more, Why? Because we paid for it!

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